"If we start talking about developing people, you have to ask those deep questions." - Dave McGurk Dave is a transformational leader who bridges military precision with cutting-edge organizational development. As Founder and CEO of Veridian Perspective and Vice President at Apogee Global RMS, Dave brings over 20 years of executive leadership experience. His impressive 30-year military career includes Training Operations Director at the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College, Army Enterprise liaison and senior executive advisor to U.S. Army European, African and Special Operations Command teams. He has managed multi-billion-dollar budgets, led teams of hundreds, and influenced policy at the highest levels of government—including presidential-level decisions. His approach blends 30 years of military leadership, adult education, & neuroscience to create AI-powered diagnostics, hyper-personalized development, and dynamic simulations for resilient leaders in a volatile world. Ken Woodward engages in a profound discussion with Dave McGurk, a transformational leader with a rich background in military leadership and organizational development. Dave shares his experiences, including a pivotal moment during his deployment in Iraq where he learned the cultural importance of time through the simple act of removing his watch. This revelation led him to question the embedded cognitive frameworks that shape our understanding of the world. Through deeply reflective questions, Dave emphasizes the importance of framing problems accurately, understanding inherited mental models, and fostering genuine connections with others. He introduces his innovative seat swap counseling method, which promotes genuine feedback and psychological safety. This episode dives into the power of questions in personal growth and leadership development, urging listeners to challenge their assumptions and continuously evolve. This Curated Questions episode can be found on all major platforms and at CuratedQuestions.com. Keep questioning!
Episode Notes
00:00 Reflecting on Leadership and Influence
01:16 Welcome to Curated Questions
02:02 Introducing Dave McGurk
04:03 Dave's Military Background and Leadership Experience
04:40 Cultural Challenges in Iraq
06:36 Learning from Iraqi Commanders
11:11 Building Trust and Relationships
13:44 The Importance of Asking the Right Questions
19:14 Teaching Critical Thinking in the Military
20:25 Challenging Assumptions and Mental Models
22:51 The Role of Vulnerability in Leadership
31:07 Navigating Authority Bias
34:21 Transition to Defense Contracting and Consulting
35:06 Understanding Mental Models and Cognitive Frameworks
35:54 The Power of Disruptive Questions
36:36 Teaching Creative Thinking and Problem Solving
39:56 Developing a Questioning Practice
44:49 Reflecting on Mental Models and Growth
45:39 Sports Analogies and Human Development
46:24 Personal Journey and Military Experience
48:22 The Impact of Suicide in the Military
49:22 Leadership and Connection with Soldiers
49:43 A Pivotal Moment: Jeremy LeClair's Story
50:03 Psychological Autopsy and Leadership Reflection
51:30 Commitment to Authentic Leadership
52:21 The Importance of Deep Questions
52:38 Understanding Mental Models
59:17 Challenges of Egocentric Thought
01:00:46 Feedback Mechanisms and Counseling
01:02:27 Connecting with People in Leadership
01:03:25 Deployment and Leadership Challenges
01:06:52 Empowering Teams and Challenging Authority Bias
01:08:09 Excitement for Future Leadership Development
01:14:35 Curated Questions and Continuous Improvement
01:21:01 Final Thoughts and Takeaways
Resources Mentioned
General Dempsey
Army's Command General Staff College
CONOP
Mk Palmore
Apogee Global RMS
Thinking Fast and Slow by Kahneman
experiential learning model
Jeremy LeClair
the Leadership Student 2.0 podcast
Questions Asked
When did you first understand the power of questions?
What else am I missing?
As an American who is over here supporting this country and this culture, what else do you not think I understand?
What do you think sets you apart in your approach versus those who came behind?
What are they really getting after?
What is it that you're really looking for?
What's the problem?
What am I missing? How do I see the problem? What are the facts that are relevant to the problem? And what's gonna allow me to open my aperture to see a different dimension of the problem?
How did that question rubric land with those that you were teaching or bringing up behind?
What is the question that you need to ask somebody to turn that into a fact?
What do you think?
What are the things that you're struggling with? What are the questions that you're trying to figure out? What haven't you had answered?
Am I trying to disrupt it in the right way?
Why did you jump on the one that was wrong?
What are the things that you think about that really drive the way you think?
How does your brain work?
How do we challenge that?
How do we challenge our own ability to understand how we're thinking and how we're gonna make a difference for us?
How can we develop a questioning practice or a way of living that ensures that we look beyond just the top drawer?
What are those echoes that kind of govern how we think?
What assumptions had to be made here that would turn into facts that are still applicable here?
How do we match that against what we think our inherited mental model is that is driving that for us?
Am I aware of those shortcuts that my brain is making?
Am I a reflection of the rewiring and the response?
How do I change the framework?
What is this doing to me?
Do you have any idea where that came from?
What is it that's going on?
What are those reflexive interpretations that are coming?
What are those echoes that are coming back and feeding us?
What was it about me that made you think that I was a good leader?
What invasive cognitive model has colonized your mind without your permission?
What is that question really trying to get at the heart of?
How does ego fit into all of this story?
Is this the right perspective? How do I shape that perspective?
How are you doing? How's your wife? You get a birthday next week, how does it feel to be getting old?
How did you take that staff and turn it into such a machine in such a short period of time?
How are our customers doing?
How would you feel if you would have one of your VPs sit down and give you counseling about what you're doing? Are you crazy? Why would I do that?
What elements are you most excited about in this next season that you're going into, with all that you've been creating?
Did we miss anything about questions?
What are the questions that you're working with right now for you personally?
How are you gonna experience catastrophic success?
What inherited beliefs about the right way to operate might you be clinging to without questioning their validity in different contexts?
How might your current problem be completely reframed if you ask, what am I missing instead of how do I solve this?
Which of your firmly held beliefs did you actually choose versus inherit from your environment? And are they still serving you?
What would change in your relationships if you literally or figuratively swap seats with those you lead or work alongside?